Meth hype?

[0:-]]

0:->

Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
From: "0:->" <***@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.

Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.

Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
be proven. It's very likely that hour is nearer now:

Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.

The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."

So now researchers are finding;

http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html

www.katu.com

Click Here to Print

Research: Meth harms babies before birth

Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.

Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT

Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.

Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.

Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.

The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.

Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.

(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Find this article at:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html

Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.


©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.

Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.

Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.

Kane

[Rob]

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.



Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

[0:-]]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'

The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.

My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.

My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.

Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.

It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.

If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.

In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.

In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.

Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.

Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.

I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.

Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.

Mice it is. 0:->

(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)

Kane

[Rob]

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'
The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.
My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.
My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.
Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.
It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.
If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.
In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.
In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.
Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.
Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.
I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.
Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.
Mice it is. 0:->
(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)
Kane

I don't think we need to do animal studies.

I thought that the problems of amphetamine use in pregnancy were accepted.

Amphetamine abuse during pregnancy: environmental factors and
outcome after 14-15 years.

* Eriksson M,
* Jonsson B,
* Steneroth G,
* Zetterstrom R.

Department of Pediatrics, Karolinska Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.
***@kbh.ki.se

The aim of this study was to assess the influence of social
environmental factors on school performance and behavioural problems
among 14-year-old children who had been exposed to amphetamine during
foetal life. The study group comprised a cohort of 65 children who had
suffered intrauterine exposure to amphetamine due to maternal drug
abuse. This group has been followed since birth and examined at regular
intervals. Information regarding the academic performance of the
children was gathered from the school authorities. The psychosocial
environment of the children was determined through interviews and
through information obtained from the social authorities. Of the 64
children who attended a school within the state school system, 10 (15%)
were a year behind for their age. The mean grades were significantly
lower than those of their classmates. Behavioural problems were
mentioned in the social authority documentation of one-third of the
children, regardless of whether the child was placed in a foster home or
was residing with the biological mother. A positive significant
correlation was found between maternal age and the outcome of the
children, as well as between therapy during pregnancy and outcome,
whilst several environmental factors, particularly during the child's
first four years, correlate negatively to outcome. Psychosocial factors
early in life influence the outcome at 14 years. The positive effect of
intervention during pregnancy illustrates the importance of early
identification preferable during pregnancy.

[0:-]]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'
The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.
My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.
My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.
Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.
It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.
If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.
In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.
In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.
Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.
Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.
I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.
Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.
Mice it is. 0:->
(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)
Kane

I don't think we need to do animal studies.

I respectfully disagree.

Posters to ascps have argued that "it's going to turn out like the
'cocaine baby' hype, that resulted in not as much damage as claimed or
predicted."

As if that is a valid argument.

Hence, we need to see if they are right, and we can just relax about
the "damage," or not.

Post by Rob
I thought that the problems of amphetamine use in pregnancy were accepted.

Nope. It takes a body of research, including replication, to make a
reasonable determination. Like the cocaine issue.

A single study. How many have there been?

As I said, a body of research, with replication, is needed.

More bad decisions setting bad policy have been made from a single
"study" than I'd care to count. Replications are in order.

Post by Rob
Amphetamine abuse during pregnancy: environmental factors and
outcome after 14-15 years.
* Eriksson M,
* Jonsson B,
* Steneroth G,
* Zetterstrom R.
Department of Pediatrics, Karolinska Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.
The aim of this study was to assess the influence of social
environmental factors on school performance and behavioural problems
among 14-year-old children who had been exposed to amphetamine during
foetal life. The study group comprised a cohort of 65 children who had
suffered intrauterine exposure to amphetamine due to maternal drug
abuse. This group has been followed since birth and examined at regular
intervals. Information regarding the academic performance of the
children was gathered from the school authorities. The psychosocial
environment of the children was determined through interviews and
through information obtained from the social authorities. Of the 64
children who attended a school within the state school system, 10 (15%)
were a year behind for their age. The mean grades were significantly
lower than those of their classmates. Behavioural problems were
mentioned in the social authority documentation of one-third of the
children, regardless of whether the child was placed in a foster home or
was residing with the biological mother. A positive significant
correlation was found between maternal age and the outcome of the
children, as well as between therapy during pregnancy and outcome,
whilst several environmental factors, particularly during the child's
first four years, correlate negatively to outcome. Psychosocial factors
early in life influence the outcome at 14 years. The positive effect of
intervention during pregnancy illustrates the importance of early
identification preferable during pregnancy.

Significant, but not conclusive. Passable research, most likely. I'd
like to look at it.

Do you have a link to this source so that we can examine it more
closely?

Thanks. Kane

[Rob]

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'
The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.
My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.
My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.
Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.
It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.
If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.
In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.
In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.
Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.
Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.
I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.
Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.
Mice it is. 0:->
(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)
Kane

I don't think we need to do animal studies.

I respectfully disagree.
Posters to ascps have argued that "it's going to turn out like the
'cocaine baby' hype, that resulted in not as much damage as claimed or
predicted."

I think the Cocaine baby damage is pretty significant.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17083299&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum


Morrow CE, Culbertson JL, Accornero VH, Xue L, Anthony JC, Bandstra ES.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Miami School of Medicine, Miami,
FL 33101, USA. ***@med.miami.edu

Risk for developing a learning disability (LD) or impaired intellectual
functioning by age 7 was assessed in full-term children with prenatal
cocaine exposure drawn from a cohort of 476 children born full term and
enrolled prospectively at birth. Intellectual functioning was assessed
using the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Third Edition
(Wechsler, 1991) short form, and academic functioning was assessed using
the Wechsler Individual Achievement Test (WIAT; Wechsler, 1993) Screener
by examiners blind to exposure status. LDs were categorized based on
ability-achievement discrepancy scores, using the regression-based
predicted achievement method described in the WIAT manual. The sample in
this report included 409 children (212 cocaine-exposed, 197
non-cocaine-exposed) from the birth cohort with available data.
Cumulative incidence proportions and relative risk values were estimated
using STATA software (Statacorp, 2003). No differences were found in the
estimate of relative risk for impaired intellectual functioning (IQ
below 70) between children with and without prenatal cocaine exposure
(estimated relative risk = .95; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.65,
1.39; p = .79). The cocaine-exposed children had 2.8 times greater risk
of developing a LD by age 7 than non-cocaine-exposed children (95% CI =
1.05, 7.67; p = .038; IQ >/= 70 cutoff). Results remained stable with
adjustment for multiple child and caregiver covariates, suggesting that
children with prenatal cocaine exposure are at increased risk for
developing a learning disability by age 7 when compared to their
non-cocaine-exposed peers.

PMID: 17083299 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Post by 0:-]
As if that is a valid argument.
Hence, we need to see if they are right, and we can just relax about
the "damage," or not.

Post by Rob
I thought that the problems of amphetamine use in pregnancy were accepted.

Nope. It takes a body of research, including replication, to make a
reasonable determination. Like the cocaine issue.
A single study. How many have there been?
As I said, a body of research, with replication, is needed.
More bad decisions setting bad policy have been made from a single
"study" than I'd care to count. Replications are in order.

Post by Rob
Amphetamine abuse during pregnancy: environmental factors and
outcome after 14-15 years.
* Eriksson M,
* Jonsson B,
* Steneroth G,
* Zetterstrom R.
Department of Pediatrics, Karolinska Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.
The aim of this study was to assess the influence of social
environmental factors on school performance and behavioural problems
among 14-year-old children who had been exposed to amphetamine during
foetal life. The study group comprised a cohort of 65 children who had
suffered intrauterine exposure to amphetamine due to maternal drug
abuse. This group has been followed since birth and examined at regular
intervals. Information regarding the academic performance of the
children was gathered from the school authorities. The psychosocial
environment of the children was determined through interviews and
through information obtained from the social authorities. Of the 64
children who attended a school within the state school system, 10 (15%)
were a year behind for their age. The mean grades were significantly
lower than those of their classmates. Behavioural problems were
mentioned in the social authority documentation of one-third of the
children, regardless of whether the child was placed in a foster home or
was residing with the biological mother. A positive significant
correlation was found between maternal age and the outcome of the
children, as well as between therapy during pregnancy and outcome,
whilst several environmental factors, particularly during the child's
first four years, correlate negatively to outcome. Psychosocial factors
early in life influence the outcome at 14 years. The positive effect of
intervention during pregnancy illustrates the importance of early
identification preferable during pregnancy.

Significant, but not conclusive. Passable research, most likely. I'd
like to look at it.
Do you have a link to this source so that we can examine it more
closely?
Thanks. Kane

Sorry I thought I put the link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10954143&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

This is the search page where you can search 17 million abstracts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed

Search
cocaine pregnancy school
Amphetamine pregnancy school

You will have plenty to read.

[0:-]]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'
The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.
My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.
My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.
Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.
It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.
If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.
In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.
In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.
Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.
Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.
I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.
Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.
Mice it is. 0:->
(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)
Kane

I don't think we need to do animal studies.

I respectfully disagree.
Posters to ascps have argued that "it's going to turn out like the
'cocaine baby' hype, that resulted in not as much damage as claimed or
predicted."

I think the Cocaine baby damage is pretty significant.

Not only do I agree, I KNOW. I've seen many of them, from 1981 onward.
Throw that claim (by others who used to post to ascps) that the
outcomes were not "all that bad in comparison" into a foster parent's
forum and watch the shit hit the fan. They too KNOW.

Post by Rob
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17083299&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum
Morrow CE, Culbertson JL, Accornero VH, Xue L, Anthony JC, Bandstra ES.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Miami School of Medicine, Miami,
Risk for developing a learning disability (LD) or impaired intellectual
functioning by age 7 was assessed in full-term children with prenatal
cocaine exposure drawn from a cohort of 476 children born full term and
enrolled prospectively at birth. Intellectual functioning was assessed
using the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Third Edition
(Wechsler, 1991) short form, and academic functioning was assessed using
the Wechsler Individual Achievement Test (WIAT; Wechsler, 1993) Screener
by examiners blind to exposure status. LDs were categorized based on
ability-achievement discrepancy scores, using the regression-based
predicted achievement method described in the WIAT manual. The sample in
this report included 409 children (212 cocaine-exposed, 197
non-cocaine-exposed) from the birth cohort with available data.
Cumulative incidence proportions and relative risk values were estimated
using STATA software (Statacorp, 2003). No differences were found in the
estimate of relative risk for impaired intellectual functioning (IQ
below 70) between children with and without prenatal cocaine exposure
(estimated relative risk = .95; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.65,
1.39; p = .79). The cocaine-exposed children had 2.8 times greater risk
of developing a LD by age 7 than non-cocaine-exposed children (95% CI =
1.05, 7.67; p = .038; IQ >/= 70 cutoff). Results remained stable with
adjustment for multiple child and caregiver covariates, suggesting that
children with prenatal cocaine exposure are at increased risk for
developing a learning disability by age 7 when compared to their
non-cocaine-exposed peers.
PMID: 17083299 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Folks that have adopted cocaine babies, while the majority do well,
see the damage that was done, and how it is so life changing for the
victim. Their goals and aspirations will have to be different than if
they had not been so exposed.

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
As if that is a valid argument.
Hence, we need to see if they are right, and we can just relax about
the "damage," or not.

Post by Rob
I thought that the problems of amphetamine use in pregnancy were accepted.

Nope. It takes a body of research, including replication, to make a
reasonable determination. Like the cocaine issue.
A single study. How many have there been?
As I said, a body of research, with replication, is needed.
More bad decisions setting bad policy have been made from a single
"study" than I'd care to count. Replications are in order.

Post by Rob
Amphetamine abuse during pregnancy: environmental factors and
outcome after 14-15 years.
* Eriksson M,
* Jonsson B,
* Steneroth G,
* Zetterstrom R.
Department of Pediatrics, Karolinska Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.
The aim of this study was to assess the influence of social
environmental factors on school performance and behavioural problems
among 14-year-old children who had been exposed to amphetamine during
foetal life. The study group comprised a cohort of 65 children who had
suffered intrauterine exposure to amphetamine due to maternal drug
abuse. This group has been followed since birth and examined at regular
intervals. Information regarding the academic performance of the
children was gathered from the school authorities. The psychosocial
environment of the children was determined through interviews and
through information obtained from the social authorities. Of the 64
children who attended a school within the state school system, 10 (15%)
were a year behind for their age. The mean grades were significantly
lower than those of their classmates. Behavioural problems were
mentioned in the social authority documentation of one-third of the
children, regardless of whether the child was placed in a foster home or
was residing with the biological mother. A positive significant
correlation was found between maternal age and the outcome of the
children, as well as between therapy during pregnancy and outcome,
whilst several environmental factors, particularly during the child's
first four years, correlate negatively to outcome. Psychosocial factors
early in life influence the outcome at 14 years. The positive effect of
intervention during pregnancy illustrates the importance of early
identification preferable during pregnancy.

Significant, but not conclusive. Passable research, most likely. I'd
like to look at it.
Do you have a link to this source so that we can examine it more
closely?
Thanks. Kane

Sorry I thought I put the link
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10954143&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum
This is the search page where you can search 17 million abstracts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed

Thanks.

Post by Rob
Search
cocaine pregnancy school
Amphetamine pregnancy school
You will have plenty to read.

I'm familiar with enough of it that it will be a fairly easy read.
Thanks.

Kane

[Greegor]

Meth is very bad.
NACO got caught exaggerating the stats
in an effort to pull for massive FUNDING.

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'
The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.
My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.
My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.
Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.
It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.
If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.
In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.
In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.
Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.
Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.
I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.
Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.
Mice it is. 0:->
(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)
Kane

I don't think we need to do animal studies.

I respectfully disagree.
Posters to ascps have argued that "it's going to turn out like the
'cocaine baby' hype, that resulted in not as much damage as claimed or
predicted."

I think the Cocaine baby damage is pretty significant.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...
Morrow CE, Culbertson JL, Accornero VH, Xue L, Anthony JC, Bandstra ES.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Miami School of Medicine, Miami,
Risk for developing a learning disability (LD) or impaired intellectual
functioning by age 7 was assessed in full-term children with prenatal
cocaine exposure drawn from a cohort of 476 children born full term and
enrolled prospectively at birth. Intellectual functioning was assessed
using the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Third Edition
(Wechsler, 1991) short form, and academic functioning was assessed using
the Wechsler Individual Achievement Test (WIAT; Wechsler, 1993) Screener
by examiners blind to exposure status. LDs were categorized based on
ability-achievement discrepancy scores, using the regression-based
predicted achievement method described in the WIAT manual. The sample in
this report included 409 children (212 cocaine-exposed, 197
non-cocaine-exposed) from the birth cohort with available data.
Cumulative incidence proportions and relative risk values were estimated
using STATA software (Statacorp, 2003). No differences were found in the
estimate of relative risk for impaired intellectual functioning (IQ
below 70) between children with and without prenatal cocaine exposure
(estimated relative risk = .95; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.65,
1.39; p = .79). The cocaine-exposed children had 2.8 times greater risk
of developing a LD by age 7 than non-cocaine-exposed children (95% CI =
1.05, 7.67; p = .038; IQ >/= 70 cutoff). Results remained stable with
adjustment for multiple child and caregiver covariates, suggesting that
children with prenatal cocaine exposure are at increased risk for
developing a learning disability by age 7 when compared to their
non-cocaine-exposed peers.
PMID: 17083299 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Post by 0:-]
As if that is a valid argument.
Hence, we need to see if they are right, and we can just relax about
the "damage," or not.

Post by Rob
I thought that the problems of amphetamine use in pregnancy were accepted.

Nope. It takes a body of research, including replication, to make a
reasonable determination. Like the cocaine issue.
A single study. How many have there been?
As I said, a body of research, with replication, is needed.
More bad decisions setting bad policy have been made from a single
"study" than I'd care to count. Replications are in order.

Post by Rob
Amphetamine abuse during pregnancy: environmental factors and
outcome after 14-15 years.
* Eriksson M,
* Jonsson B,
* Steneroth G,
* Zetterstrom R.
Department of Pediatrics,

[0:-]]

Post by Greegor
Meth is very bad.
NACO got caught exaggerating the stats
in an effort to pull for massive FUNDING.

Claims are not proof.

Proof please.

The stats are bad, still, Greg.

Meth is moving right up there with other drugs as a destroyer.

Keep on shufflin'

0:]

Post by Greegor

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]

Post by Rob

Post by 0:-]
0:->
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:21:52 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 17 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Meth Hype vs Reality

Their baaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkk.
Here's some truth about the 'meth hype'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/oct05/story2_10_05.html
The Meth Epidemic: Hype vs. Reality
The facts about how the drug affects child welfare
and how agencies have coped.

On Jan 17th this year I posted this commentary below in rebutal to
claims that the "meth" problem was just "hype," the claims above.
Having first hand knowledge and knowing many foster parents that have
worked with meth effected children I took offense at the propagandist
approach of some of my opponents.
Sooner or later we would see that what I ended with in that post would
Here's my comments then;
" ... These figures take into account the hospital and medical costs
for drug exposed babies, housing costs, and outside care costs.
The long-term health damage to meth-exposed children has not yet been
calculated."
So now researchers are finding;
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
www.katu.com
Click Here to Print
Research: Meth harms babies before birth
Hands hold a bag of crystal methamphetamine and a pipe in this file
photo.
Story Published: Apr 15, 2007 at 3:59 PM PDT
Story Updated: Apr 15, 2007 at 4:01 PM PDT
By Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Oregon medical researchers say new studies on
mice show that methamphetamine can harm babies before they're born.
Oregon Health and Science University used mice to study prenatal
exposure to the highly addictive drug - and how it negatively affects
learning and memory.
Now researchers are recruiting boys and girls ages seven to nine who
were exposed to meth when their mothers were pregnant for a new study.
The study will involve three paper-based tests and three
computer-based tests - including a three-dimensional,
computer-generated virtual reality program called Memory Island to
assess spatial learning and memory.
Researchers say the mouse studies have already shown that females are
more vulnerable to impairment than males.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/7036912.html
Click Here to Print
SAVE THIS | EMAIL THIS | Close
Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
©2007 KATU-TV. All Rights Reserved.
Where will it lead? Well the propagandists peddling their anti Meth
Problem BS can hold their breath while CPS workers, foster parents,
and bio parents and their families that have dealt with this problem
personally already KNOW the outcome.
Children are impaired by meth exposure in utero.
Kane

I am a bit confused about this post.

Okay. I might have not been clear enough, and there is a history here
that you could not know if you are a new poster. I have been accused
of hyping, or using hype of others, in the Meth epidemic issue.

Post by Rob
I mean is there anyone out there that does not believe that the use of
Amphetamines is probably not a good idea when you are pregnant.
(Cocaine, Heroin, Smoking, Heavy Drinking) are probably not great either.

The argument has been made here that (paraphrasing)'it's no worse than
the cocaine "epidemic" and that turned out to not be that bad.'
The truth on the cocaine "epidemic" is that it is now being minimized,
while in fact those that cared for the child victims of cocaine
ingestion know otherwise. Children at the very least, months and
months of pain and disorientation, and were not like normal children
and still aren't. I suspect very poor testing procedures with
'agendas' running the studies.

Post by Rob
With Amphetamines user they are probably addicted - You are not going
talk them out of it.

The problem with Meth is that so much goes into it that is more than
just the Amphetamines that the damages are highly unpredictable.
"Dirty" can have some very strange things in it.
My past arguments, of which this post on research is an extension of,
weren't and still aren't about "going to talk them out of," meth use.
My focus is on two things. Education to influence people not to start
using, and more especially at this time in history, dealing
responsibly as a society to the wreck it makes of children's lives.
Many parents are "lost" due to this particular addiction. That is bad
for children.
It is costly, risky, and painful to come into their lives, as a
society, and make other plans for them and carry them out.
If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Post by Rob
Animal studies with mice are of interest but you must remember that if
we had the same rate of metabolism as mice we would have a body
temperature above boiling point.

Scientists, believe it or not, know that and make compensations for
it. Usually through statistical analysis.
In other words, they work to fit the "dose" to the body weight and
metabolism.
In fact, they selectively breed mice for characteristics that are
specialized for the research they are doing.
Animal studies with mice have become highly standardized to account
for human to mouse differences.
Personally I think pigs make better human surrogates, but then they
are much more expensive to breed and house than mice, per experiment.
I could probably feed and cage easily 2,000 mice for what it takes to
pen and feed one pig. Age studies would be a disaster, for instance,
costwise.
Pigs live long lives and get very very big....like 300-800 lbs.
Mice it is. 0:->
(Though pigs are used for some medical experimentation...like heart
and circulatory studies...you can hardly tell us apart by sight of
organs only.)
Kane

I don't think we need to do animal studies.

I respectfully disagree.
Posters to ascps have argued that "it's going to turn out like the
'cocaine baby' hype, that resulted in not as much damage as claimed or
predicted."

I think the Cocaine baby damage is pretty significant.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...
Morrow CE, Culbertson JL, Accornero VH, Xue L, Anthony JC, Bandstra ES.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Miami School of Medicine, Miami,
Risk for developing a learning disability (LD) or impaired intellectual
functioning by age 7 was assessed in full-term children with prenatal
cocaine exposure drawn from a cohort of 476 children born full term and
enrolled prospectively at birth. Intellectual functioning was assessed
using the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Third Edition
(Wechsler, 1991) short form, and academic functioning was assessed using
the Wechsler Individual Achievement Test (WIAT; Wechsler, 1993) Screener
by examiners blind to exposure status. LDs were categorized based on
ability-achievement discrepancy scores, using the regression-based
predicted achievement method described in the WIAT manual. The sample in
this report included 409 children (212 cocaine-exposed, 197
non-cocaine-exposed) from the birth cohort with available data.
Cumulative incidence proportions and relative risk values were estimated
using STATA software (Statacorp, 2003). No differences were found in the
estimate of relative risk for impaired intellectual functioning (IQ
below 70) between children with and without prenatal cocaine exposure
(estimated relative risk = .95; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.65,
1.39; p = .79). The cocaine-exposed children had 2.8 times greater risk
of developing a LD by age 7 than non-cocaine-exposed children (95% CI =
1.05, 7.67; p = .038; IQ >/= 70 cutoff). Results remained stable with
adjustment for multiple child and caregiver covariates, suggesting that
children with prenatal cocaine exposure are at increased risk for
developing a learning disability by age 7 when compared to their
non-cocaine-exposed peers.
PMID: 17083299 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Post by 0:-]
As if that is a valid argument.
Hence, we need to see if they are right, and we can just relax about
the "damage," or not.

Post by Rob
I thought that the problems of amphetamine use in pregnancy were accepted.

Nope. It takes a body of research, including replication, to make a
reasonable determination. Like the cocaine issue.
A single study. How many have there been?
As I said, a body of research, with replication, is needed.
More bad decisions setting bad policy have been made from a single
"study" than I'd care to count. Replications are in order.

Post by Rob
Amphetamine abuse during pregnancy: environmental factors and
outcome after 14-15 years.
* Eriksson M,
* Jonsson B,
* Steneroth G,
* Zetterstrom R.
Department of Pediatrics,

[Greegor]

Rob is that you?

[0:->]

Post by Greegor
Rob is that you?

Your imaginary friend again, Greg?

[0:->]

Methis very bad.
NACO got caught exaggerating the stats
in an effort to pull for massive FUNDING.

Yeah, sure, Greg.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=541224&catname=Editorial&classif=

http://tinyurl.com/yo36xw

(Not even a US source, bunky. So stop with the head in the sand lying,
silly little child.)



Printed from www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com web site Thursday, May
24, 2007 - © 2007 Peterborough Examiner Meth lab Mexican style

LESLIE MILLIN

Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 00:00

Editorial - Most who pass through this city see it as a dreary
industrial satellite of Mexico City, an obstacle on their way to far
more beautiful places, but its very dreariness as well as other
attributes have made it a place where a new and alarming approach to
the international drug trade is quietly fermenting.

Mexican authorities are understandably upset that their country has
become deeply involved with the seemingly insatiable appetite of
Americans for cocaine, which originates in South America but passes
through Mexico.

But they are now having to face a new reality: that their national
territory may not simply be a conduit but a point of origin, and for
an addictive substance arguably more profitable and dangerous even
than cocaine: crystal methamphetamine.

An indicator of the potential scope of the enterprise is the US$205-
million seized from a private house in the elegant Las Lomas area of
Mexico City, the home of a naturalized Mexican of Chinese origin,
Zhenli Ye Gon, who seems to have vanished rather than explain his need
to have quite so much cash on hand.

Mexico's Attorney General offers a coherent explanation: Ye Gon was
preparing to build a 150,000-square-foot factory in Toluca to
manufacture sufficient amphetamine to supply up to 80 per cent of the
estimated American market.

To do this he had imported eight state-of-the-art pill manufacturing
machines and 60 tons of pseudoephedrine, a pharmaceutical often used
as a precursor of methamphetamine.

Like any good businessman, he had arranged for premises in San Pedro
Totoltepec industrial park, where one more boxy warehouse/factory with
big trucks coming and going would attract no attention.

His machines were made by Fette GMBH, a highly respectable German
enterprise, and each had the capacity to make up to 50,000 pills per
hour, or about 360,000 pills per day assuming he complied with the
labour code.

At full production these machines could have produced almost 3-million
pills a day, worth an estimated US$14-million on the wholesale black
market.

His raw material came from China by way of Long Beach, California and
passed on through the Mexican Pacific ports of Manzanillo and Lazaro
Cardenas, a purely industrial port with very strict security
arrangements where the first 19 tons of pseudoephedrine were seized.
Ye Gon's machines were imported through the Gulf port of Veracruz,
apparently attracting no attention.

One of the considerations of which the Mexican authorities are all too
aware is that the profits of the drug trade are so great that its
participants are quite prepared to murder to protect them, and to
emphasize the deaths by very gruesome techniques: decapitation is now
common.

Death tolls have been as many as 21 in a single day. Many are
gangsters killing each other for some marginal advantage, but many are
police - either for not being corrupt, or for being insufficiently
corrupt - and some are simply innocent by-standers.

Particularly along the northern border, worried business leaders are
pointing out that foreign direct investments are shrinking, because of
concerns that cross-border shipments will not only be delayed by extra
security, but that drivers may be in fear of their lives.

A concern of the Mexican authorities is that of the eight machines
imported by Ye Gon, only one is accounted for. The other seven could
be anywhere, stashed in some other industrial park, waiting for a
further shipment of pseudoephedrine through some busy port with
overworked or overbribed officials.

Whether Ye Gon is personally still active is unknown, but a man who
can walk away from US$205-million and a luxury home is clearly a
formidable force.

Leslie Millin is an editor with the Issues Network. He lives for
several months of the year in Mexico.
ID- 541224 © 2007 , Osprey Media. All Rights Reserved. This material
may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Greegor]

Post by 0:->
Whether Ye Gon is personally still active is unknown, but a man who
can walk away from US$205-million and a luxury home is clearly a
formidable force.

Or dead.

[0:-]]

Post by Greegor

Post by 0:->
Whether Ye Gon is personally still active is unknown, but a man who
can walk away from US$205-million and a luxury home is clearly a
formidable force.

Or dead.

Not pertinent to the issue.

That issue is that I predicted, with lots of bullshit from you and
others that I was "hyping" meth, that more was coming in terms of
growing production.

Now we see you, asshole, were wrong, and that I was right.

When I tell you in this newsgroup that something is likely to happen
and I tell you it's not just my opinion, but that of others with more
information than I, I am not lying.

Nor were the cops you make fun of, Greg.

They know damn well what they see on the street. They know the level
and kinds of related and direct crime going on in this instance.

If I want LE information I presume my very best source is going to BE
law enforcement. They told me this was coming.

I repeated it here, and YOU, with NO knowledge, NO citations, and
others with both bullshit irrelevant citations and careful
misinterpretation of the data, claimed I didn't know what I was
talking about and likely had some personal gain as my agenda.

You fucking lied, Greg. That simple. So did Doug, so did bobber, so
did others.

When I want to know how bad the meth problem is I look to outcomes
that can be tracked. One of those is psychiatric treatment for meth
induced psychosis. I WORK with people in this field, Greg. I'm NOT
going to publicly lie, for any reason, since there is no one to
"Protect" on this issue, and I'm going to tell you what they told me.

One of the things they told me is the data, back when those that
stroke your butt for you were pushing it here, on meth psychosis cases
presenting at treatment facilities was outdated, but NOT identified as
such, and they were seeing other drug involved people being turned
away under the pressure from the growing severity and numbers of meth
heads presenting, I was not lying, Greg.

You and your bullshit buddies were because you would accept ONLY those
bits of rumor, lies, evasions, and bad research that would suit your
agenda...just as FX is currently doing with child abuse related
issues.

You are one of a pack of liars. Nothing more, you silly simp.

And your reply clearly indicates how little you care about the society
around you.

It's all about Greg, just as we could see from your first posts here.

0:]

[0:-]]

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/117995915198690.xml&coll=7

Being hooked on crime provides a window on meth
Sunday, May 27, 2007
JEFF BAKER

TACOMA -- From the window of Mark Lindquist's office on the ninth
floor of the County-City Building, it's possible to see a drug deal go
down. "Tweeker Alley" is just around the corner, and meth users fill
the downstairs courtrooms, on trial for the crimes that grow out of
their addiction -- the break-ins and child abuse and identity theft.

Meth and identity theft, he says, "go together like marijuana and the
munchies." It's the kind of polished line someone who's worked as a
script doctor in Hollywood and written four novels might deliver, not
a deputy prosecuting attorney for Pierce County who's in charge of a
drug unit specializing in meth cases.

Funny thing, though. Lindquist did work as a screenwriter and he has
written four novels, most recently "The King of Methlehem," an inside
look at Tacoma's meth culture that's so lightly fictionalized that it
uses real names wherever possible and includes precise descriptions of
where Lindquist eats and sleeps and works.
Advertisement

In "The King of Methlehem," the office of Mike Lawson, who has the
same title and initials as Lindquist, is described by the
author/prosecutor as "dominated by his oversized desk, has a view of
downtown Tacoma and a black-and-white signed poster of Kurt Cobain
with an acoustic guitar. . . ." Take a Polaroid and rub it a little on
the corner, and that's Lindquist's office. The leak in the acoustic
tile of the ceiling, the one he says is "both metaphor and reality,"
is in another office, down the hall.

On a sunny Friday afternoon, activity on the ninth floor is down a
little from the usual high-caffeine buzz. Lindquist leans back in his
chair and talks about the cases he's working. Besides all kinds of
"meth stuff," he prosecutes murders and other major crimes and is
preparing to take the accused Tacoma Mall shooter to trial in August;
seven people were injured and four people were held hostage there.
Questions about the 2005 case make Lindquist choose his words
carefully; he doesn't want to say anything that's not in the
indictment. Dominick Maldonado allegedly told police beforehand that
he was armed and about to start shooting. When asked where,
Maldonado's said to have replied, "Just follow the screams." Lindquist
doesn't want to get the quote wrong and prints a copy of the
indictment before heading downstairs.

In the elevator and the lobby, he exchanges greetings with everyone in
sight. Lindquist is 6-foot-6, wears white shirts with monogrammed
cuffs and was chosen as one of People magazine's 100 most eligible
bachelors in the country in 2000, but it's his obvious zest for his
job that makes him stand out.

"I got hooked when I was an intern," he says. "I loved everything
about it. It's endlessly fascinating, and I get a real adrenaline
charge from it."

Lindquist, 48, grew up in Seattle and went to the University of
Southern California. He stayed in Los Angeles and had a good time as a
screenwriter and writing fiction. His first novel, "Sad Movies," was
edited by Salem native Gary Fisketjon, and through that connection and
a friendship with Bret Easton Ellis, Lindquist became a West Coast
member of the literary Brat Pack of the 1980s, with all the drinking
privileges that implies.

His second novel, "Carnival Desires," also was edited by Fisketjon,
but by 1992 the party was over. Lindquist, wanting to change his life,
moved back to Seattle and went to law school at the University of
Washington. He took a job with Pierce County as soon as he graduated
and jumped into the gritty life of crime and punishment, first
prosecuting drunken-driving and drug cases, then assaults and rapes
and since 2004 as the trial team leader for the drug unit.

All along, he kept writing. A third novel, "Never Mind Nirvana," with
a jacket showing a lawyer chasing a dollar that spoofs Nirvana's
"Nevermind" album cover, was published in 2000 to strong sales and
reviews and was optioned by Hollywood. His boss, Pierce County
prosecuting attorney Gerald Horne, is supportive, and Lindquist spends
evenings and weekends writing what he knows.

"There's a lot more parallels between the law and writing than you
might think," Lindquist says. "Like what? Well, like a love of
language and a desire to create order out of the world."

Lindquist is sitting in Le-Le's, a Vietnamese restaurant that's a
hangout for Tacoma's legal/political crowd. He describes it in "The
King of Methlehem" as being like "Rick's, Humphrey Bogart's cafe in
'Casablanca.' Everybody comes to Le-Le's."

Everybody's come and gone this afternoon as Lindquist sips a bubble
tea and talks about meth. In 1997, his unit prosecuted 25 meth labs.
By 2001, the number was 439. Pierce County's always been a dumping
ground for parolees and others leaving state institutions, he says,
and the combination of that population and the rural areas outside
Tacoma made it fertile territory for a meth explosion. Manufacturers
learned the relatively simple "Nazi method" of cooking meth off the
Internet and from each other and had no problem setting up labs across
the county.

"That's changed," Lindquist says. "Home cooking has peaked and is on
the decline."

Increased awareness by police and the public -- blue tarps, propane
tanks and the smell of cat urine equals a meth lab -- and more
aggressive prosecution has cut the number of meth labs in the county.
Meth use continues to increase, he says, and Mexican gangs smuggle in
the drug.

Lindquist laughs at those who try to minimize the meth problem. Go
back to the courthouse, he says, and talk to the people in the system.
His office sees them cycling through, year after year, and it's
discouraging.

"Remember that leak in the ceiling?" he asks. "Sometimes it feels like
we have our finger in the dike."

He's smiling when he says it, though, and he can't wait to go back and
do something about it, and then write about it later.

Lindquist discusses "The King of Methlehem" at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at
Powell's Books on Hawthorne, 3723 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd.

www.marklindquist.net

Jeff Baker: 503-221-8165; ***@news.oregonian.com

[Greegor]

Proof that people see Meth hysteria as a profit center?
Script writer proves what else?

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/entertain...
Being hooked on crime provides a window on meth
Sunday, May 27, 2007
JEFF BAKER
TACOMA -- From the window of Mark Lindquist's office on the ninth
floor of the County-City Building, it's possible to see a drug deal go
down. "Tweeker Alley" is just around the corner, and meth users fill
the downstairs courtrooms, on trial for the crimes that grow out of
their addiction -- the break-ins and child abuse and identity theft.
Meth and identity theft, he says, "go together like marijuana and the
munchies." It's the kind of polished line someone who's worked as a
script doctor in Hollywood and written four novels might deliver, not
a deputy prosecuting attorney for Pierce County who's in charge of a
drug unit specializing in meth cases.
Funny thing, though. Lindquist did work as a screenwriter and he has
written four novels, most recently "The King of Methlehem," an inside
look at Tacoma's meth culture that's so lightly fictionalized that it
uses real names wherever possible and includes precise descriptions of
where Lindquist eats and sleeps and works.
Advertisement
In "The King of Methlehem," the office of Mike Lawson, who has the
same title and initials as Lindquist, is described by the
author/prosecutor as "dominated by his oversized desk, has a view of
downtown Tacoma and a black-and-white signed poster of Kurt Cobain
with an acoustic guitar. . . ." Take a Polaroid and rub it a little on
the corner, and that's Lindquist's office. The leak in the acoustic
tile of the ceiling, the one he says is "both metaphor and reality,"
is in another office, down the hall.
On a sunny Friday afternoon, activity on the ninth floor is down a
little from the usual high-caffeine buzz. Lindquist leans back in his
chair and talks about the cases he's working. Besides all kinds of
"meth stuff," he prosecutes murders and other major crimes and is
preparing to take the accused Tacoma Mall shooter to trial in August;
seven people were injured and four people were held hostage there.
Questions about the 2005 case make Lindquist choose his words
carefully; he doesn't want to say anything that's not in the
indictment. Dominick Maldonado allegedly told police beforehand that
he was armed and about to start shooting. When asked where,
Maldonado's said to have replied, "Just follow the screams." Lindquist
doesn't want to get the quote wrong and prints a copy of the
indictment before heading downstairs.
In the elevator and the lobby, he exchanges greetings with everyone in
sight. Lindquist is 6-foot-6, wears white shirts with monogrammed
cuffs and was chosen as one of People magazine's 100 most eligible
bachelors in the country in 2000, but it's his obvious zest for his
job that makes him stand out.
"I got hooked when I was an intern," he says. "I loved everything
about it. It's endlessly fascinating, and I get a real adrenaline
charge from it."
Lindquist, 48, grew up in Seattle and went to the University of
Southern California. He stayed in Los Angeles and had a good time as a
screenwriter and writing fiction. His first novel, "Sad Movies," was
edited by Salem native Gary Fisketjon, and through that connection and
a friendship with Bret Easton Ellis, Lindquist became a West Coast
member of the literary Brat Pack of the 1980s, with all the drinking
privileges that implies.
His second novel, "Carnival Desires," also was edited by Fisketjon,
but by 1992 the party was over. Lindquist, wanting to change his life,
moved back to Seattle and went to law school at the University of
Washington. He took a job with Pierce County as soon as he graduated
and jumped into the gritty life of crime and punishment, first
prosecuting drunken-driving and drug cases, then assaults and rapes
and since 2004 as the trial team leader for the drug unit.
All along, he kept writing. A third novel, "Never Mind Nirvana," with
a jacket showing a lawyer chasing a dollar that spoofs Nirvana's
"Nevermind" album cover, was published in 2000 to strong sales and
reviews and was optioned by Hollywood. His boss, Pierce County
prosecuting attorney Gerald Horne, is supportive, and Lindquist spends
evenings and weekends writing what he knows.
"There's a lot more parallels between the law and writing than you
might think," Lindquist says. "Like what? Well, like a love of
language and a desire to create order out of the world."
Lindquist is sitting in Le-Le's, a Vietnamese restaurant that's a
hangout for Tacoma's legal/political crowd. He describes it in "The
King of Methlehem" as being like "Rick's, Humphrey Bogart's cafe in
'Casablanca.' Everybody comes to Le-Le's."
Everybody's come and gone this afternoon as Lindquist sips a bubble
tea and talks about meth. In 1997, his unit prosecuted 25 meth labs.
By 2001, the number was 439. Pierce County's always been a dumping
ground for parolees and others leaving state institutions, he says,
and the combination of that population and the rural areas outside
Tacoma made it fertile territory for a meth explosion. Manufacturers
learned the relatively simple "Nazi method" of cooking meth off the
Internet and from each other and had no problem setting up labs across
the county.
"That's changed," Lindquist says. "Home cooking has peaked and is on
the decline."
Increased awareness by police and the public -- blue tarps, propane
tanks and the smell of cat urine equals a meth lab -- and more
aggressive prosecution has cut the number of meth labs in the county.
Meth use continues to increase, he says, and Mexican gangs smuggle in
the drug.
Lindquist laughs at those who try to minimize the meth problem. Go
back to the courthouse, he says, and talk to the people in the system.
His office sees them cycling through, year after year, and it's
discouraging.
"Remember that leak in the ceiling?" he asks. "Sometimes it feels like
we have our finger in the dike."
He's smiling when he says it, though, and he can't wait to go back and
do something about it, and then write about it later.
Lindquist discusses "The King of Methlehem" at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at
Powell's Books on Hawthorne, 3723 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd.
www.marklindquist.net

[0:-]]

Post by Greegor
Proof that people see Meth hysteria as a profit center?

Nope. And you failed to hid your claim with question mark. It's an
obvious accusation.

Post by Greegor
Script writer proves what else?

He's likely on-line, Greg. Shall I give you his email address?

Send him an email and ask him to explain to you how he makes a profit
off prosecuting meth and meth related cases.

I'm sure you can deal with him.

When you call him a liar, right?

In fact, if you are feeling off today, why don't I mail your email to
him for you?

I'll be thinking about that throughout the day. I'll let you know what
I decide, if I remember to.

His county, by the way, has an extremely high crime rate. Lots of
transients, right on the major north south drug run highway, I5, from
Mexico to Canada. Cities all along that route suffer from severe drug
trafficking problems.

Do some research...like you actually will....R R R R R

Post by Greegor

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/entertain...
Being hooked on crime provides a window on meth
Sunday, May 27, 2007
JEFF BAKER
TACOMA -- From the window of Mark Lindquist's office on the ninth
floor of the County-City Building, it's possible to see a drug deal go
down. "Tweeker Alley" is just around the corner, and meth users fill
the downstairs courtrooms, on trial for the crimes that grow out of
their addiction -- the break-ins and child abuse and identity theft.
Meth and identity theft, he says, "go together like marijuana and the
munchies." It's the kind of polished line someone who's worked as a
script doctor in Hollywood and written four novels might deliver, not
a deputy prosecuting attorney for Pierce County who's in charge of a
drug unit specializing in meth cases.
Funny thing, though. Lindquist did work as a screenwriter and he has
written four novels, most recently "The King of Methlehem," an inside
look at Tacoma's meth culture that's so lightly fictionalized that it
uses real names wherever possible and includes precise descriptions of
where Lindquist eats and sleeps and works.
Advertisement
In "The King of Methlehem," the office of Mike Lawson, who has the
same title and initials as Lindquist, is described by the
author/prosecutor as "dominated by his oversized desk, has a view of
downtown Tacoma and a black-and-white signed poster of Kurt Cobain
with an acoustic guitar. . . ." Take a Polaroid and rub it a little on
the corner, and that's Lindquist's office. The leak in the acoustic
tile of the ceiling, the one he says is "both metaphor and reality,"
is in another office, down the hall.
On a sunny Friday afternoon, activity on the ninth floor is down a
little from the usual high-caffeine buzz. Lindquist leans back in his
chair and talks about the cases he's working. Besides all kinds of
"meth stuff," he prosecutes murders and other major crimes and is
preparing to take the accused Tacoma Mall shooter to trial in August;
seven people were injured and four people were held hostage there.
Questions about the 2005 case make Lindquist choose his words
carefully; he doesn't want to say anything that's not in the
indictment. Dominick Maldonado allegedly told police beforehand that
he was armed and about to start shooting. When asked where,
Maldonado's said to have replied, "Just follow the screams." Lindquist
doesn't want to get the quote wrong and prints a copy of the
indictment before heading downstairs.
In the elevator and the lobby, he exchanges greetings with everyone in
sight. Lindquist is 6-foot-6, wears white shirts with monogrammed
cuffs and was chosen as one of People magazine's 100 most eligible
bachelors in the country in 2000, but it's his obvious zest for his
job that makes him stand out.
"I got hooked when I was an intern," he says. "I loved everything
about it. It's endlessly fascinating, and I get a real adrenaline
charge from it."
Lindquist, 48, grew up in Seattle and went to the University of
Southern California. He stayed in Los Angeles and had a good time as a
screenwriter and writing fiction. His first novel, "Sad Movies," was
edited by Salem native Gary Fisketjon, and through that connection and
a friendship with Bret Easton Ellis, Lindquist became a West Coast
member of the literary Brat Pack of the 1980s, with all the drinking
privileges that implies.
His second novel, "Carnival Desires," also was edited by Fisketjon,
but by 1992 the party was over. Lindquist, wanting to change his life,
moved back to Seattle and went to law school at the University of
Washington. He took a job with Pierce County as soon as he graduated
and jumped into the gritty life of crime and punishment, first
prosecuting drunken-driving and drug cases, then assaults and rapes
and since 2004 as the trial team leader for the drug unit.
All along, he kept writing. A third novel, "Never Mind Nirvana," with
a jacket showing a lawyer chasing a dollar that spoofs Nirvana's
"Nevermind" album cover, was published in 2000 to strong sales and
reviews and was optioned by Hollywood. His boss, Pierce County
prosecuting attorney Gerald Horne, is supportive, and Lindquist spends
evenings and weekends writing what he knows.
"There's a lot more parallels between the law and writing than you
might think," Lindquist says. "Like what? Well, like a love of
language and a desire to create order out of the world."
Lindquist is sitting in Le-Le's, a Vietnamese restaurant that's a
hangout for Tacoma's legal/political crowd. He describes it in "The
King of Methlehem" as being like "Rick's, Humphrey Bogart's cafe in
'Casablanca.' Everybody comes to Le-Le's."
Everybody's come and gone this afternoon as Lindquist sips a bubble
tea and talks about meth. In 1997, his unit prosecuted 25 meth labs.
By 2001, the number was 439. Pierce County's always been a dumping
ground for parolees and others leaving state institutions, he says,
and the combination of that population and the rural areas outside
Tacoma made it fertile territory for a meth explosion. Manufacturers
learned the relatively simple "Nazi method" of cooking meth off the
Internet and from each other and had no problem setting up labs across
the county.
"That's changed," Lindquist says. "Home cooking has peaked and is on
the decline."
Increased awareness by police and the public -- blue tarps, propane
tanks and the smell of cat urine equals a meth lab -- and more
aggressive prosecution has cut the number of meth labs in the county.
Meth use continues to increase, he says, and Mexican gangs smuggle in
the drug.
Lindquist laughs at those who try to minimize the meth problem. Go
back to the courthouse, he says, and talk to the people in the system.
His office sees them cycling through, year after year, and it's
discouraging.
"Remember that leak in the ceiling?" he asks. "Sometimes it feels like
we have our finger in the dike."
He's smiling when he says it, though, and he can't wait to go back and
do something about it, and then write about it later.
Lindquist discusses "The King of Methlehem" at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at
Powell's Books on Hawthorne, 3723 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd.
www.marklindquist.net

[spd]

Post by 0:-]

Post by Greegor
Proof that people see Meth hysteria as a profit center?

Nope. And you failed to hid your claim with question mark. It's an
obvious accusation.

Post by Greegor
Script writer proves what else?

He's likely on-line, Greg. Shall I give you his email address?
Send him an email and ask him to explain to you how he makes a profit
off prosecuting meth and meth related cases.
I'm sure you can deal with him.
When you call him a liar, right?
In fact, if you are feeling off today, why don't I mail your email to
him for you?
I'll be thinking about that throughout the day. I'll let you know what
I decide, if I remember to.
His county, by the way, has an extremely high crime rate. Lots of
transients, right on the major north south drug run highway, I5, from
Mexico to Canada. Cities all along that route suffer from severe drug
trafficking problems.
Do some research...like you actually will....R R R R R

Post by Greegor

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/entertain...
Being hooked on crime provides a window on meth
Sunday, May 27, 2007
JEFF BAKER
TACOMA -- From the window of Mark Lindquist's office on the ninth
floor of the County-City Building, it's possible to see a drug deal go
down. "Tweeker Alley" is just around the corner, and meth users fill
the downstairs courtrooms, on trial for the crimes that grow out of
their addiction -- the break-ins and child abuse and identity theft.
Meth and identity theft, he says, "go together like marijuana and the
munchies." It's the kind of polished line someone who's worked as a
script doctor in Hollywood and written four novels might deliver, not
a deputy prosecuting attorney for Pierce County who's in charge of a
drug unit specializing in meth cases.
Funny thing, though. Lindquist did work as a screenwriter and he has
written four novels, most recently "The King of Methlehem," an inside
look at Tacoma's meth culture that's so lightly fictionalized that it
uses real names wherever possible and includes precise descriptions of
where Lindquist eats and sleeps and works.
Advertisement
In "The King of Methlehem," the office of Mike Lawson, who has the
same title and initials as Lindquist, is described by the
author/prosecutor as "dominated by his oversized desk, has a view of
downtown Tacoma and a black-and-white signed poster of Kurt Cobain
with an acoustic guitar. . . ." Take a Polaroid and rub it a little on
the corner, and that's Lindquist's office. The leak in the acoustic
tile of the ceiling, the one he says is "both metaphor and reality,"
is in another office, down the hall.
On a sunny Friday afternoon, activity on the ninth floor is down a
little from the usual high-caffeine buzz. Lindquist leans back in his
chair and talks about the cases he's working. Besides all kinds of
"meth stuff," he prosecutes murders and other major crimes and is
preparing to take the accused Tacoma Mall shooter to trial in August;
seven people were injured and four people were held hostage there.
Questions about the 2005 case make Lindquist choose his words
carefully; he doesn't want to say anything that's not in the
indictment. Dominick Maldonado allegedly told police beforehand that
he was armed and about to start shooting. When asked where,
Maldonado's said to have replied, "Just follow the screams." Lindquist
doesn't want to get the quote wrong and prints a copy of the
indictment before heading downstairs.
In the elevator and the lobby, he exchanges greetings with everyone in
sight. Lindquist is 6-foot-6, wears white shirts with monogrammed
cuffs and was chosen as one of People magazine's 100 most eligible
bachelors in the country in 2000, but it's his obvious zest for his
job that makes him stand out.
"I got hooked when I was an intern," he says. "I loved everything
about it. It's endlessly fascinating, and I get a real adrenaline
charge from it."
Lindquist, 48, grew up in Seattle and went to the University of
Southern California. He stayed in Los Angeles and had a good time as a
screenwriter and writing fiction. His first novel, "Sad Movies," was
edited by Salem native Gary Fisketjon, and through that connection and
a friendship with Bret Easton Ellis, Lindquist became a West Coast
member of the literary Brat Pack of the 1980s, with all the drinking
privileges that implies.
His second novel, "Carnival Desires," also was edited by Fisketjon,
but by 1992 the party was over. Lindquist, wanting to change his life,
moved back to Seattle and went to law school at the University of
Washington. He took a job with Pierce County as soon as he graduated
and jumped into the gritty life of crime and punishment, first
prosecuting drunken-driving and drug cases, then assaults and rapes
and since 2004 as the trial team leader for the drug unit.
All along, he kept writing. A third novel, "Never Mind Nirvana," with
a jacket showing a lawyer chasing a dollar that spoofs Nirvana's
"Nevermind" album cover, was published in 2000 to strong sales and
reviews and was optioned by Hollywood. His boss, Pierce County
prosecuting attorney Gerald Horne, is supportive, and Lindquist spends
evenings and weekends writing what he knows.
"There's a lot more parallels between the law and writing than you
might think," Lindquist says. "Like what? Well, like a love of
language and a desire to create order out of the world."
Lindquist is sitting in Le-Le's, a Vietnamese restaurant that's a
hangout for Tacoma's legal/political crowd. He describes it in "The
King of Methlehem" as being like "Rick's, Humphrey Bogart's cafe in
'Casablanca.' Everybody comes to Le-Le's."
Everybody's come and gone this afternoon as Lindquist sips a bubble
tea and talks about meth. In 1997, his unit prosecuted 25 meth labs.
By 2001, the number was 439. Pierce County's always been a dumping
ground for parolees and others leaving state institutions, he says,
and the combination of that population and the rural areas outside
Tacoma made it fertile territory for a meth explosion. Manufacturers
learned the relatively simple "Nazi method" of cooking meth off the
Internet and from each other and had no problem setting up labs across
the county.
"That's changed," Lindquist says. "Home cooking has peaked and is on
the decline."
Increased awareness by police and the public -- blue tarps, propane
tanks and the smell of cat urine equals a meth lab -- and more
aggressive prosecution has cut the number of meth labs in the county.
Meth use continues to increase, he says, and Mexican gangs smuggle in
the drug.
Lindquist laughs at those who try to minimize the meth problem. Go
back to the courthouse, he says, and talk to the people in the system.
His office sees them cycling through, year after year, and it's
discouraging.
"Remember that leak in the ceiling?" he asks. "Sometimes it feels like
we have our finger in the dike."
He's smiling when he says it, though, and he can't wait to go back and
do something about it, and then write about it later.
Lindquist discusses "The King of Methlehem" at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at
Powell's Books on Hawthorne, 3723 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd.
www.marklindquist.net

- Show quoted text -

Meth bust at day care



Cops want to crack down on people who make drugs near kids.

BROOMFIELD - Police have made a meth arrest at a home used for day
care.
Jerry Aaron Robinson, 27, was arrested Wednesday at a Broomfield home
where his mother cares for five children. Police found items in
Robinson's room used to manufacture methamphetamine.
Police cite the bust as an example of why the state must clamp down on
people who manufacture dangerous drugs around kids.
Robinson faces third-degree felony drug charges carrying a jail term
of four to 16 years.
If a bill being considered in the legislature had been law, Robinson
also would face felony child-abuse charges, carrying another four-to-
16-year term.
That bill, HB 1004, passed out of the House Appropriations Committee
on Thursday. It now goes to the full House.
Broomfield police Sgt. Dan Schuler said kids are at risk in an area
where methamphetamine is made.
"When they combine the various chemicals, it becomes a very toxic
vapor, and it permeates into the carpet, the furniture, and it's just
very dangerous," Schuler said. "And the problem is, they don't know
what the long-range effects are going to be on these kids."
The chemicals are also highly flammable.
Robinson faces an additional charge of failing to register as a sex
offender. He was convicted of a 1996 sexual assault.
He was not under an order to remain away from children,
however,Schuler said.
Robinson's mother cared for five children in the home where the arrest
occurred. They are all relatives, including grandchildren.
The woman was not arrested.
A 1-year-old child was sent to Children's Hospital for observation.
The other children, aged 6 to 8, were given to their parents.
Under a bill signed into law Monday by Gov. Bill Owens, county social
services would be required to remove children from homes where drug
crimes were taking place. The bill does not take effect until July 1.
That bill is needed to let social workers know that children must be
removed from such homes, said Rep. Cheri Jahn, D-Wheat Ridge.
"It absolutely says you will get them out of there," Jahn said.

www.stopmethaddiction.com is a very informative site. I hear that the
some innovative drug dealers are mixing drugs w/ candy to appeal to
the younger crowd...anybody seen any blueberry ice in their "hoods".

spd

[0:-]]

Post by spd

Post by 0:-]

Post by Greegor
Proof that people see Meth hysteria as a profit center?

Nope. And you failed to hid your claim with question mark. It's an
obvious accusation.

Post by Greegor
Script writer proves what else?

He's likely on-line, Greg. Shall I give you his email address?
Send him an email and ask him to explain to you how he makes a profit
off prosecuting meth and meth related cases.
I'm sure you can deal with him.
When you call him a liar, right?
In fact, if you are feeling off today, why don't I mail your email to
him for you?
I'll be thinking about that throughout the day. I'll let you know what
I decide, if I remember to.
His county, by the way, has an extremely high crime rate. Lots of
transients, right on the major north south drug run highway, I5, from
Mexico to Canada. Cities all along that route suffer from severe drug
trafficking problems.
Do some research...like you actually will....R R R R R

Post by Greegor

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/entertain...
Being hooked on crime provides a window on meth
Sunday, May 27, 2007
JEFF BAKER
TACOMA -- From the window of Mark Lindquist's office on the ninth
floor of the County-City Building, it's possible to see a drug deal go
down. "Tweeker Alley" is just around the corner, and meth users fill
the downstairs courtrooms, on trial for the crimes that grow out of
their addiction -- the break-ins and child abuse and identity theft.
Meth and identity theft, he says, "go together like marijuana and the
munchies." It's the kind of polished line someone who's worked as a
script doctor in Hollywood and written four novels might deliver, not
a deputy prosecuting attorney for Pierce County who's in charge of a
drug unit specializing in meth cases.
Funny thing, though. Lindquist did work as a screenwriter and he has
written four novels, most recently "The King of Methlehem," an inside
look at Tacoma's meth culture that's so lightly fictionalized that it
uses real names wherever possible and includes precise descriptions of
where Lindquist eats and sleeps and works.
Advertisement
In "The King of Methlehem," the office of Mike Lawson, who has the
same title and initials as Lindquist, is described by the
author/prosecutor as "dominated by his oversized desk, has a view of
downtown Tacoma and a black-and-white signed poster of Kurt Cobain
with an acoustic guitar. . . ." Take a Polaroid and rub it a little on
the corner, and that's Lindquist's office. The leak in the acoustic
tile of the ceiling, the one he says is "both metaphor and reality,"
is in another office, down the hall.
On a sunny Friday afternoon, activity on the ninth floor is down a
little from the usual high-caffeine buzz. Lindquist leans back in his
chair and talks about the cases he's working. Besides all kinds of
"meth stuff," he prosecutes murders and other major crimes and is
preparing to take the accused Tacoma Mall shooter to trial in August;
seven people were injured and four people were held hostage there.
Questions about the 2005 case make Lindquist choose his words
carefully; he doesn't want to say anything that's not in the
indictment. Dominick Maldonado allegedly told police beforehand that
he was armed and about to start shooting. When asked where,
Maldonado's said to have replied, "Just follow the screams." Lindquist
doesn't want to get the quote wrong and prints a copy of the
indictment before heading downstairs.
In the elevator and the lobby, he exchanges greetings with everyone in
sight. Lindquist is 6-foot-6, wears white shirts with monogrammed
cuffs and was chosen as one of People magazine's 100 most eligible
bachelors in the country in 2000, but it's his obvious zest for his
job that makes him stand out.
"I got hooked when I was an intern," he says. "I loved everything
about it. It's endlessly fascinating, and I get a real adrenaline
charge from it."
Lindquist, 48, grew up in Seattle and went to the University of
Southern California. He stayed in Los Angeles and had a good time as a
screenwriter and writing fiction. His first novel, "Sad Movies," was
edited by Salem native Gary Fisketjon, and through that connection and
a friendship with Bret Easton Ellis, Lindquist became a West Coast
member of the literary Brat Pack of the 1980s, with all the drinking
privileges that implies.
His second novel, "Carnival Desires," also was edited by Fisketjon,
but by 1992 the party was over. Lindquist, wanting to change his life,
moved back to Seattle and went to law school at the University of
Washington. He took a job with Pierce County as soon as he graduated
and jumped into the gritty life of crime and punishment, first
prosecuting drunken-driving and drug cases, then assaults and rapes
and since 2004 as the trial team leader for the drug unit.
All along, he kept writing. A third novel, "Never Mind Nirvana," with
a jacket showing a lawyer chasing a dollar that spoofs Nirvana's
"Nevermind" album cover, was published in 2000 to strong sales and
reviews and was optioned by Hollywood. His boss, Pierce County
prosecuting attorney Gerald Horne, is supportive, and Lindquist spends
evenings and weekends writing what he knows.
"There's a lot more parallels between the law and writing than you
might think," Lindquist says. "Like what? Well, like a love of
language and a desire to create order out of the world."
Lindquist is sitting in Le-Le's, a Vietnamese restaurant that's a
hangout for Tacoma's legal/political crowd. He describes it in "The
King of Methlehem" as being like "Rick's, Humphrey Bogart's cafe in
'Casablanca.' Everybody comes to Le-Le's."
Everybody's come and gone this afternoon as Lindquist sips a bubble
tea and talks about meth. In 1997, his unit prosecuted 25 meth labs.
By 2001, the number was 439. Pierce County's always been a dumping
ground for parolees and others leaving state institutions, he says,
and the combination of that population and the rural areas outside
Tacoma made it fertile territory for a meth explosion. Manufacturers
learned the relatively simple "Nazi method" of cooking meth off the
Internet and from each other and had no problem setting up labs across
the county.
"That's changed," Lindquist says. "Home cooking has peaked and is on
the decline."
Increased awareness by police and the public -- blue tarps, propane
tanks and the smell of cat urine equals a meth lab -- and more
aggressive prosecution has cut the number of meth labs in the county.
Meth use continues to increase, he says, and Mexican gangs smuggle in
the drug.
Lindquist laughs at those who try to minimize the meth problem. Go
back to the courthouse, he says, and talk to the people in the system.
His office sees them cycling through, year after year, and it's
discouraging.
"Remember that leak in the ceiling?" he asks. "Sometimes it feels like
we have our finger in the dike."
He's smiling when he says it, though, and he can't wait to go back and
do something about it, and then write about it later.
Lindquist discusses "The King of Methlehem" at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at
Powell's Books on Hawthorne, 3723 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd.
www.marklindquist.net

- Show quoted text -

Meth bust at day care
Cops want to crack down on people who make drugs near kids.
BROOMFIELD - Police have made a meth arrest at a home used for day
care.
Jerry Aaron Robinson, 27, was arrested Wednesday at a Broomfield home
where his mother cares for five children. Police found items in
Robinson's room used to manufacture methamphetamine.
Police cite the bust as an example of why the state must clamp down on
people who manufacture dangerous drugs around kids.
Robinson faces third-degree felony drug charges carrying a jail term
of four to 16 years.
If a bill being considered in the legislature had been law, Robinson
also would face felony child-abuse charges, carrying another four-to-
16-year term.
That bill, HB 1004, passed out of the House Appropriations Committee
on Thursday. It now goes to the full House.
Broomfield police Sgt. Dan Schuler said kids are at risk in an area
where methamphetamine is made.
"When they combine the various chemicals, it becomes a very toxic
vapor, and it permeates into the carpet, the furniture, and it's just
very dangerous," Schuler said. "And the problem is, they don't know
what the long-range effects are going to be on these kids."
The chemicals are also highly flammable.
Robinson faces an additional charge of failing to register as a sex
offender. He was convicted of a 1996 sexual assault.
He was not under an order to remain away from children,
however,Schuler said.
Robinson's mother cared for five children in the home where the arrest
occurred. They are all relatives, including grandchildren.
The woman was not arrested.
A 1-year-old child was sent to Children's Hospital for observation.
The other children, aged 6 to 8, were given to their parents.
Under a bill signed into law Monday by Gov. Bill Owens, county social
services would be required to remove children from homes where drug
crimes were taking place. The bill does not take effect until July 1.
That bill is needed to let social workers know that children must be
removed from such homes, said Rep. Cheri Jahn, D-Wheat Ridge.
"It absolutely says you will get them out of there," Jahn said.

Day late? Dollar short? JUST NOW getting around to a removal
requirement?

Post by spd
www.stopmethaddiction.com is a very informative site. I hear that the
some innovative drug dealers are mixing drugs w/ candy to appeal to
the younger crowd...anybody seen any blueberry ice in their "hoods".
spd

Heard about this recently. Talk about sick. We chatted about it at the
last meth education committee meeting. The sheriff says they have seen
it in our area, and it is not an "urban' 'hood.

Meth is a very non discriminatory drug apparently.

Kane

[Lester Dolt]

0:-] wrote:

Don/Kane/d'geezer

Run out of kiddies to spam to perverts??

Your daffy meth hysteria is OT here.

[0:-]]

On Fri, 25 May 2007 09:56:48 -0700, "0:-]" <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070611/us_nm/usa_native_meth_dc;_ylt=Asge1cQzl8.01T0AdS0sjdDMWM0F

Yahoo! News
Back to Story - Help
Meth adds scourge to troubled Native American lands

By James B. Kelleher Mon Jun 11, 9:15 AM ET

A brutal triple slaying in this remote corner of the vast Navajo
reservation brought home what experts have seen coming for years: an
explosion in crime on tribal lands linked to the cheap, potent and
highly addictive stimulant methamphetamine.

"Meth is the biggest scourge," says Francis Bradley, the chief of
police for the Hualapai reservation in northern Arizona, located on
the high desert flanking the south rim of the Grand Canyon.

"Alcohol is a big issue, too. But when you look at meth, it has a far
more devastating effect."

In 2001, the Indian Health Service, the U.S. agency that treats
Indians and Alaska natives, recorded 2,980 emergency room visits and
paramedic calls on reservations related to the drug, which is also
known as speed, crank, ice, crystal and glass.

By 2006, that number had mushroomed to 8,873.

"Alcohol continues to be a bigger destroyer of lives than meth," said
James Stone, acting director in IHS's division of behavior. "But meth
makes more of an impact because of the, frankly, wild behavior it
triggers."

TRIPLE SLAYING

The savageness of the Hogback slayings in November 2005 provided an
all-too-vivid illustration of that. The three victims, all tribal
members, were each shot multiple times -- one 14 times. The government
alleges the four suspects, also tribal members, were meth dealers bent
on revenge. All four await trial in Albuquerque on first degree murder
charges.

Last year, in the wake of the Hogback killings and other signs of the
impact meth was having on reservations, the Bureau of Indian Affairs
surveyed tribal law enforcement agencies across the country about drug
threats on their lands.

Three quarters identified meth as their No. 1 problem and linked it to
a rise in domestic violence, assaults, burglaries and child abuse and
child neglect.

"So people are not only destroying their own lives by using this
illegal substance, but they're perpetrating new crimes, primarily
violent crimes," says Chris Chaney, the deputy director of the office
of justice services at the bureau. "That's the even more tragic story.
It's drawing in innocent victims."

SPILLOVER FROM OUTSIDE WORLD

The meth problem isn't confined to Indian lands. The drug has been
identified by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency as the greatest threat
to small-town America.

One reason: Unlike heroin and marijuana, meth is easily manufactured
using common chemicals found in household products or over-the-counter
medicines.

First-time users of the drug, which can be smoked, snorted or
injected, experience a long-lasting high and feeling of euphoria and
excitement. But long-term use often leads to a dramatic and
devastating deterioration in the user's physical and mental health,
characterized by anxiety, psychotic behavior, risky sexual behaviors
and violence.

TRIBES VULNERABLE

But while its use in the general population is falling, it appears to
be rising in the 500 Native American tribes from Alaska to New
England.

Experts say a number of factors -- including the long use of
hallucinogens like peyote for rituals and herbs for medicines by the
tribes as well as a more recent problem of alcohol abuse -- help
account for the rise in meth use.

In addition, many reservations are located in remote, rural areas. As
a result, they are places of underemployment, grinding poverty and
reliance on government assistance, where residents live in aged mobile
homes or poorly constructed conventional houses.

The bureau's Chaney said there was also evidence that meth dealers are
now specifically targeting Indian communities.

"They know that on many reservations there are high levels of
substance abuse already," he says. "So some drug cartels figure they
can move in and take advantage of that addictive behavior and replace
whatever the substance being abused -- alcohol, marijuana or something
else -- with meth addiction."

To combat the problem, the bureau has asked for an additional $16
million in its 2008 budget to battle the rise of methamphetamine on
reservations. But Dirk Kempthorne, the U.S. Secretary of the Interior,
which oversees bureau, earlier this year warned that the problem was
approaching crisis.

"It has the potential of wiping out an entire generation of Native
American youth," he said.

(additional reporting by Nick Carey and Tim Gaynor)

Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication
or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without
the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for
any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in
reliance thereon.

[Dan Sullivan]

Post by Greegor
Meth is very bad.
NACO got caught exaggerating the stats
in an effort to pull for massive FUNDING.

Exaggerating for funding.

Gee, that never happens.

BTW, Greg, when you wrote in the Motion that you knew how to raise
children because you taught a cat to do dog tricks... was that
exaggerating?

"The Service Plan directs Greg to attend Parenting Classes. Greg has
had NO HEARING about his guilt or innocence and the courts seem to
afford him NO RIGHTS, while imposing OBLIGATIONS extorted through
threat of TPR. Greg was the oldest of four children and had about
20
cousins visit, so served as apprentice parent at a young age. Greg
trained his cat Nosey to do "dog tricks" on command. Cats do not
respond well to negative reinforcement. You can't force a cat to do
anything."

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_thread/thread/ce7527e0c16fd02b/b529f3d83e885efb?lnk=gst&q=%22Mother+DOES+NOT%22&rnum=53&hl=en#b529f3d83e885efb